Ontario TAK vs Ranger RD-4 specs

[Myron]

Ontario TAK Vs Ranger RD-4
This is not a review but a side by side comparison of two similar knives.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/MyronAllen/IMGP0587.jpg
Ontario TAK
steel 1095
56-58RC
knife weight 268g
Knife in sheath weight 446g
.1875" thick
110mm cutting edge*
33mm from spine to blade edge
choil length 15mm
handle 135mm long
handle 18mm wide
belly of handle 33mm deep
sheath length 268mm
sheath width 69mm

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/MyronAllen/IMGP0586.jpg
Ranger RD-4
steel 5160
58RC
knife weight 418g
Knife in sheath weight 572g
1/4" thick
110mm cutting edge*
43mm from spine to blade edge
choil length 25mm
handle 128mm long
handle 20mm wide
belly of handle 37mm deep
sheath length 335mm
sheath width 75mm


Side & length comparison
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/MyronAllen/IMGP0583.jpg

Blade thickness comparison
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/MyronAllen/IMGP0584.jpg

Sheaths
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/MyronAllen/IMGP0585.jpg


Just a few observations:

The TAK sheath is vastly superior to the Ranger RD-4 sheath whch needs extensive modification. The material is much thinner, the stitching inferior and it is longer and bulkier than it needs to be with a cheap, poorly made molly attachment system.

The RD-4 feels like it would chop the TAK (which has been approved by the US military) into little pieces. Would the additional weight be welcomed on a long walk though?

The handle on the RD-4 is for bigger hands but can be sanded down, the TAK is for small hands but it's longer, thinner handle feels good with alternative holds.

The RD-4 looks like it's begging to take a beating. However I have not used it at all. I have used the TAK extensively at work which includes extreem missuse, smashing it though 70x35 pine, 185mm pine dressed door jambs, and woodchip flooring systems, all with the rubber handle of a hammer as a driver. It took this very well. When the hammer was used steel on steel some slight mushrooming of the spine occured but filed out easily.

The TAK comes shaving sharp out of the box, the RD-4 did not shave or even slice well. Even cutting thread under tension was laborious work and would not push cut but needed to be sliced. I have no way to measure this but by eye it appears to be close to be a 40 degree edge. I will be taking this to Clive before using however, Justin will accept this knife back and touch up the edge for free.

*The TAK cutting edge was measured from the tip to the ricasso. The RD-4 cutting edge was measured from the blade tip to the begining of the choil. Because these are stright line measurments and do not take the belly of the blade into consideration these measurments are not accurate but an indication of length.

[TiNi]

To use the RD4 or not hmmmmmmmm

May be a thing of the past Myron with the aquisition of Ranger by Ontario, keeper till we see more info or f##k it and use it ?.

[Myron]

Exactly! This is my dillema! I can't write a review comparing these two knives until I use the Ranger, but I want to hold back for a little while until I know what's going on. This is why I just wrote down the specs. So if people are looking at a knife this size they know roughly what will suit them. But no performance reviews as yet.

Additionally this was the last knife he had in his possesion, everything else had been bought out, but there are no markings on the blade to tell you this, so not sure if it counts for jack.

[TiNi]

Last one you say..................... i hope the RD7 that i've had on order still evenuates

[Myron]

...maybe it was the last RD-4!...or maybe it was just bullsh*t!

[Stewart Townsend]

Interesting, a chop off, so to speak.

I haven't handled either of the knives (that I know off), just sitting on my armchair.

So the Ontario TAK uses 1095 heat treated to 56-58RC.
It is reasonably tough and holds an edge well, and is easy to sharpen.

The Ranger RD-4 uses 5160 heat treated to 58RC.
5160 is a common spring steel, basically 1060 with one per-cent of chromium. Known especially for its outstanding toughness.

JDees site Increases edge retention, raises tensile strength, increases hardness and improves resistance to wear and abrasion. A general rule of thumb is the more Carbon the better the steel. Apparantly with carbon added in isolation, it decreases toughness so if we want a really tough knife don't use as much carbon. Hence we have 5160 with it's outstanding toughness as opposed to the 1095's reasonably toughness but more carbon will help with edge retention.

I don't suppose either of them are selectively drawn with a softer back, thats custom knife territory.

Ontario TAK 3/16" (4.8mm) thick
Ranger RD-4 1/4" (6.4mm)thick
Bit of difference. I do like the contours on the handles from the top view.

The TAK comes shaving sharp out of the box, the RD-4 did not shave or even slice well. Even cutting thread under tension was laborious work and would not push cut but needed to be sliced. I have no way to measure this but by eye it appears to be close to be a 40 degree edge.

I suppose that a 40 degree edge wouldn't cut very well, I suppose the old Spyderco kit that Carl's is so fond of puts very serviceable 20 degree edges, if you want a razor go to 10 degrees. But we all use convex edges now, why don't all manufacturers do that.

The RD-4 feels like it would chop the TAK into little pieces.

I don't know, if I was going to knife fight I would go for a
1. Gun or failing that
2. a Sword.

Would the additional weight be welcomed on a long walk though?

Hard question.

the TAK (which has been approved by the US military)

Well, they designed the M60 machine gun, (they took 2 brilliant German weapons and combined what they wanted) and the M60 resulted, bad answer.
They designed the first M-16, probably another bad answer.
M1918 Trench Knife the KBar they might make good decisions about knives.

This is not a review but a side by side comparison of two similar knives.

I know which one I would prefer.

[Waldganger]

......................I know which one I would prefer.

The M60?:mmph:

[Myron]

This is not a review but a side by side comparison of two similar knives.

I know which one I would prefer.

Yeah I would love to do a review as well, with photo's of how they compair in different tasks. Once I know what's going on with Ranger knives and I'll let you know what the go is and maybe bash them both about a bit.

By the way thanks for your interesting comments on the steels, if I knew as much as you I would write more reviews that's for sure.

[perksy]

USE IT... get the edge sorted and contour the handle and it will be sweet.

[Stewart Townsend]

Opinions are like ;)

But,

The TAK is of 1095 and it is 3/16 (4.8 mm) thick. 1095 with .9 - 1 % carbon is a high carbon steel good for good edges and general use.

The Ranger is 1/4 (6.4mm) inch thick from 5160 which is just a medium spring steel equivelant to 1060 - apparantly it is 1060 with a touch of Cr. It is 1/4 inch thick .

KBar 4.3 mm (?) -1095, USAF Pilot Knives 4.8 mm 1095 (?), the Fallkniven F1 4.5 mm and S1 5 mm VG10 an Australian WW2 Utility knife was about 4mm thick. (I suppose the military would generally be thought to be a hard user).

I digress.

It is interesting that from the first Kbar made the military have changed rifle ammunition and weapons considerably. Even in Australia we have gone from the .303 SMLE, 7.62 SLR to the 5.56 Austeyr ( the Germans have been using caseless ammuntion). The thinking on small arms over this period has changed dramatically.

To knives again, has the thinking for the Military changed, not really (materials have changed plastics, micarta and steels) but the Military seems to want a similar specifications for knives. So 4 mm to 5mm thick blade from a good steel with good cutting ability for general use. (Obviously job specific blades are around, divers for example).

So perhaps the RD-4 is a 1/4 inch thick knife with its 110mm blade to "take up the slack" for an axe?

The RD-4 in sheath weight is 572g, interestingly Gerber/Fiskars axe - 9 inch is 549 oz, 17.5 inch is 596 oz. I have the 14 inch model, it has a 70 mm face. Perhaps a comparison with a gerber/fiskars axe might be in order if you use the RD-4 Myron. I would suspect that the axe is a far better chopper and hammer. It would be interesting with "knife" cutting applications how the axe goes against the RD-4 if you choke the head of the axe?

But then if you had a 8 inch custom knife with 1/8th thick blade and the gerber/fiskars axe you could do anything well (for a bit more weight). Slice,dice and chop. :)

[Knife Rookie]

Good review Myron. A wouldn't mind a RD4.

[Myron]

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/MyronAllen/IMGP0586.jpg

The RD4 after a sheath refurb and a new edge. Above is the old RD4 sheath.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/MyronAllen/IMGP0888.jpg

Preperation for the figure four
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/MyronAllen/HPIM0056.jpg


The figure four trap
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/MyronAllen/HPIM0057.jpg

[perksy]

Definatly a lot better than stock. Nice figure 4 but you need a pic of it supporting a rock or log to prove it haha.. Hook into that micarta and put some shape into it.

[Tinnie]

How's the gimping on the RD4...is it adequate or just aesthetics???

[Myron]

I tried to Nick, but my dog kept trying to chew the log it was supporting. Then a dirt bike came hurtling through the bush, saw my dog just in time and stopped. As I ran to grab my bitch the little turd on the bike did a u-turn and roosted us both with dirt before blasting off. After that I kind of forgot about the figure four and went looking for this teenager. :mad:

Tinnie, what's 'grimping'?

[Stewart Townsend]

Definatly a lot better than stock. Nice figure 4 but you need a pic of it supporting a rock or log to prove it haha.. Hook into that micarta and put some shape into it.

Nick, you could have used it in you recent expedition, as a anchor.

Myron "Pimp It" get some weight off it, 0.7mm a side, do a Jenny Craig on it.

Or you could use it as a "rock or log" for the Figure 4.

[TiNi]

Tinnie, what's 'gimping'?


Thats some freaky kind of sex stuff, leather and latex :eek:

PIMPING hehehehehe

[Myron]

As to wether it's asthetics or not is debatable. I mean, I took the verticle mollie strap off, just leaving the horizontal straps. This means it's marginaly down on weight plus I can carry it horizontally by threading a belt through the remaining mollie. I've always prefered this method of carry myself as it's not so obviouse and a flanno will easily hide a medium sized horizontaly stored blade. The belt loop is now twice the size as well as I had it folded further down to minimize size. Not sure if I'll ever use a belt that wide but the option is now there.

Can you believe quartermasters tried to charge me $25 for a bit of stitching? I picked my knife up and started heading for the door as nothing puts my back up more than 1) a woman in unecessary stress and. 2) being ripped off. Just as I reached the door she said, "no, no, don't go! I'll do it for $15!" I was aiming for about $10-15 so that was adequate. Took her 10 minutes for heavens sake! You telling me a taylor earns $150ph!? Get stuffed! A good roofer earns $40ph, same as a chippie! Plumbers charge $80-100ph! A taylor charges $150!!?!!??